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Nullsec AFKloakers are a CCP design goal fail - needs discussion!

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Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.08.17 18:39:00 - [1] How's this for a solution... give a player's ship the option to shut down communications with local transponders. If you turn it off, you can't chat in local, be seen in local, or see who's in local. If it's on, local goes along fine as is. Someone with the transponder communications off wouldn't be able to enter a system and see in local who's there, and if they go into a system with it on they'll show until it gets turned off. It would add a little planning to the cloaker and it would require people to be more alert. Monocles are so two weeks ago. Sparkle ships are the future!
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.08.17 18:58:00 - [2] Originally by: Newt Rondanse Edited by: Newt Rondanse on 17/08/2011 18:51:29 Originally by: Ingvar Angst How's this for a solution... give a player's ship the option to shut down communications with local transponders. If you turn it off, you can't chat in local, be seen in local, or see who's in local. If it's on, local goes along fine as is. Someone with the transponder communications off wouldn't be able to enter a system and see in local who's there, and if they go into a system with it on they'll show until it gets turned off. It would add a little planning to the cloaker and it would require people to be more alert. So, you mean something like closing the local chat channel? Nah, that'd never work. Kind of, but more shutting you out of it completely. You're not in it nor can you use it unless you turn it back on... then you can tie cooldowns to the start-up/ shutdown of it as well. If you really wanted, you could say that having the transponder shut down interferes a bit with your ship's ability to target, reducing the range and accuracy... If you close local, other people can still see you. With this idea, they couldn't. Monocles are so two weeks ago. Sparkle ships are the future!
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.08.18 13:43:00 - [3] Originally by: Muzztang Here is my feeling towards this problem. If I own a TCU and an IHUB in a system and have to use my hard earned isk to pay CCP for this system, I should be able to decloak an intruder in my system. Here's a little tip for you. It's not your system. Monocles are so two weeks ago. Sparkle ships are the future!
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.08.18 15:19:00 - [4] Originally by: Newt Rondanse Removing local is a bad idea, and makes AFK cloaking moot rather than "fixing" it. The problem is that afk cloaking is already moot and people fail to realize that. Remove local, people's nuts will drop and they'll have to actively play the game instead of afk their way through mining, etc. That's the real complaint... people can't afk mine because someone is afk cloaking. Take away local and you adopt a wormhole philosophy... someone is always there waiting to strike and you're always ready to respond. Monocles are so two weeks ago. Sparkle ships are the future!
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.08.19 12:29:00 - [5] Originally by: Andrea Roche One thing we have to concider that we havent in afk cloaking is the lack of doing nothing from many parties. There are times when someone is ratting and someon comes into system and then the ratter warps off and cloaks. The hunter also warps and cloaks for a while. Now we got two parties unactive cloaked for a whole day in a system doing nothing and waiting for each other to uncloak. This has got to stop. This creates lack of activity in "sleep mode" aka AFK and eve is suppose about activity! Stop forever cloak AFK. Reduce it to lets say an Hour interval where the person has to recloak manually or something. This also creates activity from the players as they can be killed of they forget to recloak. Or... undock, go rat and stay alert. Use your dscan. Tweak your fit for fight or flight as you see fit. Grow a pair, slap some Rogaine on them and HTFU. Monocles are so two weeks ago. Sparkle ships are the future!
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.08.19 14:47:00 - [6] Originally by: Mag's Edited by: Mag''s on 19/08/2011 14:31:21 Originally by: Andrea Roche This has got to stCCP talk about making eve a better place. You dont need a cloak that lasts forever. Stop this "Uber" afk cloak once and for all and eve will be a better game! It will reward activity rather than AFK! How are they affecting you, while AFK cloaked? I would like a factual answer please. I named my magnate "Cynosaurus Plex". I get exit holes into low sec and ocassionally through a C2 exits to null. You'd be surprised the panic a simple magnate can cause in a system. It's all fear, man. It's all fear. Monocles are so two weeks ago. Sparkle ships are the future!
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.08.19 18:19:00 - [7] Originally by: Andrea Roche Cloaking is good for grifing. And i am for grifing. I think this game would be bad without griefing. But its a "perma" cloak. Make it more dynamic since CCP is looking to make the game more proactive rather than pasive. Put a timer on the cloak and eve will be a more active game. The cloaker will get killed if forget to recloak. This has got to one of many separate threads i have seen people requesting this change for many years. Its about time! Make that change! Macro - push cloak, start counter. After n seconds has passed, push cloak. Monocles are so two weeks ago. Sparkle ships are the future!
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.08.20 12:29:00 - [8] Originally by: Andrea Roche There is also that one person by himself should not be able to lock a system down just in afk mod. This is overpowered. Its ok to be able to do nice herass but to be able to pick the fights without no macro and had the oposition almost no chance in making a kill is simply not right. There should be an element of risk. Siting in a system perma cloaked at a safe spot has no risk. This gam is about taking a risk and consequences. Make it so. A griefer should be able to be counter griefed and get caught. THe present system does not not allow for it. Every other item has a counter and has a way of beating it or a weakness or consumes some kind of fuel. Why this one has none? How hard is to recloak after an hour or so??? CCP Macro, Dynamic and Active are your keywords. Implement, dont just talk about it! It still amazes me that people blame the afk cloaker for locking the system down when it's their own lack of balls that is doing it. If there's a stealth bomber cloaked in your wormhole and you know it, you can still function. You only function more smartly, expecting trouble, and prepared to counter it. Hell, null-bunnies have it even easier... they can see the clown cloaking and go to a different system. Monocles are so two weeks ago. Sparkle ships are the future!
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.08.20 12:59:00 - [9] Originally by: Andrea Roche Originally by: Robert Caldera Originally by: Andrea Roche Cloaking is good for grifing. And i am for grifing. I think this game would be bad without griefing. yes Its not like you will not be able to recloak manually. You can recloak manually. You just have to remember to do it after a certain time. XD So you're pushing for afk cloakers to use macros to stay cloaked? Monocles are so two weeks ago. Sparkle ships are the future!
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.08.21 18:20:00 - [10] Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 21/08/2011 17:50:37 Originally by: Bane Nucleus It doesn't make the system useless at all. Your decision to not risk it makes the system useless for you. Yes I suppose I could keep a standing fleet ready literally 23 hours a day to kill a 40 million isk ship that may or may not have anyone at the keyboard that day, that seems like a legit and balanced engagement mechanic. Yeah, doing something insane, like, I don't know, ratting in the system next door perhaps... that's out of the question. Way too cutting edge and extreme. Monocles are so two weeks ago. Sparkle ships are the future!
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.08.22 12:19:00 - [11] Originally by: Andrea Roche This is part of my point. The cloaker should get uncloaked after a certain amount of time (with the ability to recloak manually after time has expired if they so wish) is my addition to balance this issue. This effectivelly promote been active and dynamic gaming for players and getting rid off unbalance perma cloak. So how do you propose to balance the unfair intel advantage local gives when not even a cloaked vessel can hide in a system without everyone knowing he's there? It's works beautifully in wormholes... you don't know he's there until you see the red appear on the overview or see the fleet warping to you on DScan that he led to you. You just need to be alert and ready. Monocles are so two weeks ago. Sparkle ships are the future!
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.08.22 12:49:00 - [12] Originally by: Andrea Roche You can still recloak. Cloaking is not removed. You can recloak. Everybody knows you are in system anyways now its not like they dont know. You are still pritty safe as long as you recloak. Way to miss the point. The idea of cloaking is to not be seen. Local gives too much intel in the sense that if you're in a system cloaked you're seen regardless. They know you're there, and they shouldn't. Ideally, if you're cloaked you should disappear from local as though you left the system. After all, the cloak is masking all your other signatures, making you invisible, it should also mask your transponder so local can't find you. You could add to that a little... if you chat you send a signal that makes you reappear on local for a brief period of time. That's how local and cloaking should work. If you're cloaked, you're "not there". You shouldn't konw if that neutral person that entered the system then disappeared left or cloaked. Monocles are so two weeks ago. Sparkle ships are the future!
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.08.22 13:05:00 - [13] Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 22/08/2011 13:06:02 Originally by: Andrea Roche so let me get this straight. You idea to fix afk cloak (overpowered) & local, is to litterally disapar the charactr from local making it even harder to spot. Now you r unscanable with ur change, u r perma unscanable and also invisible in local. How is this gonna help afk cloaking? You removed yourself from local, it maybe a good idea. Now what about scaning and detection? Or r u gonna perma cloak there forever still without not been punished somehow? My point is inactivity needs to be punished and activity rewarded. Therefore cloak needs a timer nerf. Yes, that's exactly it. The only reason "afk cloaking" is seen as a problem is because "afk cloakers" are seen. They only reason them being seen is a problem is because people are too coddled and lazy in null to assume they're going to be attacked and prepare for it. They want the intel (and rat bounties) delivered to them with a pretty pink bow and pony wrapping paper. If you remove the cloaked vessel from local, now you have a real cloaking device working as it should... when cloaked, they're not there. A covops ship should be able to pass through a system unseen, such as they can do in wormholes. People will adapt in null. The ones with balls will continue to profit and make more as they fill in the void left by the weak ones who leave. Monocles are so two weeks ago. Sparkle ships are the future!
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.08.22 18:13:00 - [14] The real reason there are more AFK cloakers today, and you have to admit it, is because there is a constant barrage of people whining about afk cloakers, which inspires more people to go out and roll them. The best way to beat afk cloakers is to simply quit posting about it (feeding the tears) and keep an eye open for that possibility of attack. A little streak of paranoia keeps you alive in wormholes, it'll work in null too. Take away the tears, adapt to the presence. AFK cloaking nerfed just like that. Monocles are so two weeks ago. Sparkle ships are the future!
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.08.23 15:28:00 - [15] Originally by: Andrea Roche I am in my 30s. English is my first language. Calling me biased and not them who want not just the ability to perma cloak plus not to be visible in local. If i am a ratter and i am in a known ratting system, how do i ever know if he is there or how many are there in local if they are cloaked? No local, cant see him on scan either, no scaning probes cos they dont need them...At least in a wh all i needed was to be constatnly scaning for probes, which was easy and never got killed. In wh is easier. Cos in thr to find you they have to probe you and that is detectable, dscaning is not detectable. You sure you've ever seen the inside of a wormhole? You don't need probes to find the combat sites, just run your ships scanner. You can use DScan to narrow down exactly which site someone is running and drop in completely unannounced. Sounds to me like the best possible "fix" for local is to have cloaked ships not appear on local and to simply get rid of cynos. You want to travel, get the frak out there and travel. You want to drop a fleet onto someone, fly your arse through the gates and go get 'em like men. Monocles are so two weeks ago. Sparkle ships are the future!
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.08.23 16:23:00 - [16] Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 23/08/2011 16:24:13 Originally by: Andrea Roche forgive me if i am remisd but i do belive that some things you need scan probes. It may be cos i was in different class of wh. But eitherway wh is outside the topic. Dont know how we hav swayed so far XD. LEts get back to the main topic. You need to probe out things like mags, gravs, radars, ladars... but combat sites, no. Ship's scanner detects them at 100%. Edit: Mag's... this doesn't imply that I want to probe you btw... <...awkward...> Monocles are so two weeks ago. Sparkle ships are the future!

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